I don't think I have ever looked at Atonement Theories as much as I have in the last little while. All the while I have happily attend this or that evangelical or charismatic denomination blissfully unaware of all the different theories of atonement - mostly. Is there one correct theory? Do we really know which one it is? Can we know for sure? I don't know totally. I feel a kinship more strongly with some than others indeed, I reject others. If we are to know Jesus (as Christ-followers) we should know who he is, through or by faith? through or by the Holy Spirit? through or by Grace alone? Now it gets a little less clear historically. Depending on which Christian denomination from which time all of the atonement theories have been promoted. What about all theories being sort of correct (a compromise theory ;)?
This is the part of the blog where I say "thankfully I am NOT a theologian"
others may say... "when we get to heaven we will find out"
But.... that may actually cause us to not get to heaven! I think about it this way:. If we are to know Jesus, we need to know why we need to put our faith in him, as opposed to ourselves (modern concept) or our society (post-modern concept) and rely on an unseen being. Just a thought from a blog.
"Oh easy" says the evangelical "Jesus died for my sins?"
So, if you hadn't sinned he wouldn't have died?
"Well...he knew we would sin, so he came and died."
Okay. So you sin, he dies in your place (he takes your punishment)?
"yep"
"so that was the purpose of the Atonement?"
"yep"
Many feel that wasn't the early church's teachings on the Atonement.
"Well, they are wrong, this is what it is."
Okay, so...I think you are explaining to me a form of Penal Substitutionary Atonement theory - or Christ/God took your punishment on himself.
"?????" *sigh* "look, this is the basic truth, if you can't get it, you aren't saved/born again/a true Christian (or whatever said evangelical's church calls their members)"
Did you know that isn't the only way of looking at Christ's accomplishments on the Cross?
"Do you believe he saved us from punishment for our sins?"
Of course.
"so what other Atonement theory could possibly be out there, that fits with Evangelical Christianity?"
Well, Christus Victor, Ransom Theory, Moral Influence, Recapitulation Theory...
"does Jesus die for our sins?"
Yes (Christus Victor, Ransom Theory, Recapitulation theory...), and so much more or No,(Moral Influence...) depending on which theory you are talking about.
"What more could Christ do on the cross, he died to save us from Hell nothing is greater than that?"
Indeed, what more could he do...
This is where I am at.
1. If the early church held to the Ransom theory, the Eastern Orthodox Church never altered it, should we at least know this theory? Why the silence?
2. If Christ came just to die for our sins (be a scapegoat, or satisfy a need to punish sin) what is the point of the Kingdom on earth? or for that matter the rest of our lives once we have accepted his payment for our sins?
3. It is good to consider the sacrifice God made, but when people say: "that was our punishment" then what did God forgive? Why pay for someone else's sin? It gives a warped sense of forgiveness. I forgive you but will beat myself instead???? Imagine a parent saying this to a child. Dramatic, yes, but certainly not teaching forgiveness - since the parent is still meting out the punishment (just on him/herself, not the child).
4. We definitely need faith to be with God and have God with us. Faith saves, but only faith in who Christ is.
5. Failure to figure out who he is means we don't get to be with him.
Does our understanding of the Atonement affect our position with God? For example, could Calvinist's be wrong, Eastern Orthodox Churches right and no one else gets to heaven, or vice versa?
I hide in the smug satisfaction I am not a teacher - they will be judged more harshly (Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. James 3:1)
Maybe, though, it is not enough to avoid taeching. Maybe I need to know this, for wisdom, guidance, etc. Maybe there is something we have lost since the book of Acts was written, maybe it is rooted in the Atonement theory...
This is the part of the blog where I say "thankfully I am NOT a theologian"
others may say... "when we get to heaven we will find out"
But.... that may actually cause us to not get to heaven! I think about it this way:. If we are to know Jesus, we need to know why we need to put our faith in him, as opposed to ourselves (modern concept) or our society (post-modern concept) and rely on an unseen being. Just a thought from a blog.
"Oh easy" says the evangelical "Jesus died for my sins?"
So, if you hadn't sinned he wouldn't have died?
"Well...he knew we would sin, so he came and died."
Okay. So you sin, he dies in your place (he takes your punishment)?
"yep"
"so that was the purpose of the Atonement?"
"yep"
Many feel that wasn't the early church's teachings on the Atonement.
"Well, they are wrong, this is what it is."
Okay, so...I think you are explaining to me a form of Penal Substitutionary Atonement theory - or Christ/God took your punishment on himself.
"?????" *sigh* "look, this is the basic truth, if you can't get it, you aren't saved/born again/a true Christian (or whatever said evangelical's church calls their members)"
Did you know that isn't the only way of looking at Christ's accomplishments on the Cross?
"Do you believe he saved us from punishment for our sins?"
Of course.
"so what other Atonement theory could possibly be out there, that fits with Evangelical Christianity?"
Well, Christus Victor, Ransom Theory, Moral Influence, Recapitulation Theory...
"does Jesus die for our sins?"
Yes (Christus Victor, Ransom Theory, Recapitulation theory...), and so much more or No,(Moral Influence...) depending on which theory you are talking about.
"What more could Christ do on the cross, he died to save us from Hell nothing is greater than that?"
Indeed, what more could he do...
This is where I am at.
1. If the early church held to the Ransom theory, the Eastern Orthodox Church never altered it, should we at least know this theory? Why the silence?
2. If Christ came just to die for our sins (be a scapegoat, or satisfy a need to punish sin) what is the point of the Kingdom on earth? or for that matter the rest of our lives once we have accepted his payment for our sins?
3. It is good to consider the sacrifice God made, but when people say: "that was our punishment" then what did God forgive? Why pay for someone else's sin? It gives a warped sense of forgiveness. I forgive you but will beat myself instead???? Imagine a parent saying this to a child. Dramatic, yes, but certainly not teaching forgiveness - since the parent is still meting out the punishment (just on him/herself, not the child).
4. We definitely need faith to be with God and have God with us. Faith saves, but only faith in who Christ is.
5. Failure to figure out who he is means we don't get to be with him.
Does our understanding of the Atonement affect our position with God? For example, could Calvinist's be wrong, Eastern Orthodox Churches right and no one else gets to heaven, or vice versa?
I hide in the smug satisfaction I am not a teacher - they will be judged more harshly (Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. James 3:1)
Maybe, though, it is not enough to avoid taeching. Maybe I need to know this, for wisdom, guidance, etc. Maybe there is something we have lost since the book of Acts was written, maybe it is rooted in the Atonement theory...
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